3 years on the web and 688 watches.

Three years ago tomorrow www.oxfordpocketwatches.co.uk went live, I was up till then selling from display cabinets at three antiques centres and also through eBay and I had finally got round to setting up a web site to support them together with a Facebook page and four months later this Blog.

The Benson Hunter shown here is the five hundred and fifty-sixth watch to have been sold directly from the web site with a good many more sold from the display cabinets as a direct result of the web site.

Within 2 months I was selling more from the web site than through all three antiques centres combined. During November the web site had some minor customisation  to improve the graphics and sales were really taking off as Google and other search engines started giving good rankings.

Having started off with about 140 watches by the following April I no longer has sufficient stock to support three cabinets so I had to close first at Chipping Norton and then in November at Wallingford when I also changed from a full cabinet at Brackley to the half cabinet I have now.

Stock is now very low at 38 watches and although I expect that to improve when the fly fishing season ends It is unlikely that I will ever get above fifty or so as they sell too quickly and the supply of good watches to restore continues to decline.

Dating Pocket Watches.

Revised and extended December 2016 from the original post August 2015

Dating watches can be a problem but here are a few ways that it is done.

American Watches

A Waltham 1892-Vanguard dated
to 1902 by the serial number, but
probably re-cased (see below).

These are generally the easiest as for many makes, such as Waltham and Hamilton, production records are still extant and enthusiasts in the US have put a huge amount of effort into putting them into online databases so by taking the serial number of the movement (not the case number!) and entering it you can get the production date usually to within a year or possibly two but sometimes to within a month.

Details of the type of watch may also be provided although there are some errors largely due to mixed production runs (e.g. lever and pendant set, etc..) and the occasional transcription error. The original Waltham database is maintained by the NAWCC but the most comprehensive site I have found is The Pocket Watch database.

Swiss Watches

Are more problematic, of the makes I regularly deal with, Omega have published the dates that each million watches were produced so by interpellation the production date can be determined within a year or two. Dates are known for Zenith and some for Longines, & Baume.

A Cyma movement with the serial
number under the dial

For most of the other makes the data is not generally available or, as is the case with Revue Thomman, the movements do not carry a meaningful serial number, just a 2 or 3 digit number to identify watches within a batch of production.

Having had a lot of watches by Cyma and Tavannes I have been able to build up a good database of serial numbers vs date for production between c1930 and 1938 using the silver hallmarks (see below) which is now good enough to identify the date to within a year. See this post for details.

Beyond this is comes down to experience and identifying key features such as machine set jewels which determines the earliest possible date.

English Watches.

An LWC movement showing the
serial number under the dial
dated to 1897.

Are very difficult, as far as I know production records are only available for the Lancashire Watch Company and those that are not accessible.

Other makes (assuming you can identify the maker!) are difficult as several companies appear to have multiple number sequences, indeed occasionally an Errington will turn up with two serial numbers one from each major sequence.

Generally it is therefore necessary to reply on silver case hallmarks or when in a filled or rolled gold case to compare with previous dated examples which may not be as reliable.

Silver Cases.

Silver hallmarks for 1903 by the
Birmingham Assay. The movement
is a Waltham 1899-620 also 1903.

English silver and gold case hallmarks are unique in having a date year, although until 1974 this is not quite in line with the calendar year and varied by Assay house with the Birmingham "year" starting in July and the London "year" in May, normally I refer to just the starting year, so Birmingham 1908 would indicate that the case was assayed between July 1908 and June 1909.

Some Swiss watches have only the Swiss hallmarks but others have English import marks.

For older English watches this is generally a reliable method of dating but with the introduction of the standard watch case we start to have problems due to recent re-casing of orphaned movements into orphaned cases, a problem which appears to be getting worse judging from what I see on eBay.

A subsequent post here will look at  how to identify re-cased watches. See also J.W. Benson movements in Dennison cases.

Market & Stock Update July 2015

Demand remains high, particularly for English and high end American, unfortunately these are also the ones most difficult to get hold of and with the general shortage of watches available to me I am now down to 40 watches in stock. I have currently only got two English watches available and have sold out of true railroad watches (although I do have a few railroad grade). I do have some watches, mainly medium quality Swiss, awaiting restoration but it is going to take some time for the stock situation to improve and it may get worse before it gets better.

In UK, Fellows of Birmingham have stopped their quarterly specialist auctions of pocket watches and are now including just a few, mainly solid gold watches, in with their general watch auctions. On eBay volume is down dramatically from a year or so ago and the availability of quality watches is even further down.

I used to import watches from the USA, volume is probably down there as well, but I have had to largely stop imports. This is largely because eBay have encouraged sellers to use a newly introduced facility (from a third party I believe) that collects import duties in the USA so that goods come straight through UK customs.

Unfortunately not only is this frequently slower it is far more expensive. Previously, if charged at all, I would pay Royal Mail £8.50 handling fees and up to about 9% VAT, with the eBay system charges it is more than double.

As an example a watch currently listed in the USA on "buy it now" is listed at $320 plus $15 postage plus a whopping $90.37 "duty" and handling! Someone is making a lot of money out of this, but no longer from me!

Naming Confusion!

Here is a good example of why attribution can be a problem.

This good quality 16 jewel watch is signed by well known makers & retailers Kendal and Dent - Dent made the clock that drives "Big Ben". But the movement is signed DF&C for Dimier Freres et Cie part of a long established Swiss watch making dynasty, but in this case the movement was actually made by Review Thommen, probably for the London branch of Dimier who were major watch importers.

Fitting a pocket watch crystal

Usually you can easily press out crystals from the inside, especially those not glued in, so be careful if you have the bezel open for any reason - not recommended except on lever or front key set watches! This is how to refit it if it comes out or if a replacement is crystal is to be fitted.

This assumes a hinged bezel, if it is a snap on fit remove it in similar fashion or if it is a screw on type screw if off then just ignore the bits related to the hinged type.

 

It also assumes an acrylic crystal, a glass crystal can me fitted in a similar way but do not try bending it!

   

First open the bezel using a knife at 1 o’clock if it hinges at 6 o’clock or opposite the hinge if it is hinged elsewhere. Be careful of the hands! Work over a plain surface such as a piece of writing paper so that if you should knock one off you will be able to find it.

 
Seat the crystal into its groove at 6 o’clock,  then work round both sides together pushing it into the grove, have your thumbs underneath pressing with your fingers on top.

As you get close to the finish you may need to apply pressure upwards towards the centre of the crystal with your thumbs whilst pressing down with your fingers to bow the crystal up in the centre and down at the edge, this should let you seat the crystal into its groove so that when you release the pressure it is held in firmly.

Old glass crystals are usually not perfectly round so if it is a little loose try rotating it in the bezel until it grips.

 

If it becomes necessary to glue the crystal in than the correct type of glue must be used so that crystal can subsequently be removed and any surplus removed relatively easily - which should be done when the glue if partially set.

 

Before closing or refitting the bezel check that you have not displaced the hands, particularly that the hour hand clears the second hand (or the second hand clears the minute hand on a watch with a centre sweep second hand) and that the minute hand clears the hour hand.

J.W. Benson "The Keyless Ludgate Watch" , 13J, 1891.

Here is a rare survivor. It is an early version and incorporates the Benson Patented integrated dust ring shown here in the case to which it is secured with three cams. The dust cover hinges from the ring rather than the case.

The 8 guinea starting price for these watches in silver is the equivalent to just under £1k in todays money but it was advertised as "The best and cheapest Keyless English Lever Ever made at the price".

Watch packaging

It never ceases to amaze me how poorly most people pack the watches I buy in - or how often the watch actually survives, I have a strong suspicion that watches gummed up with old oil are more robust than a newly restored one, which is rather annoying!

The main problem I find is that where people go further than just putting the watch into a jiffy bag (or envelope!) they tend to protect against crushing, against which the watch is actually quite resistant, rather than against shock which is the bigger risk. They also tend to wrap lots of tape all round the watch and / or packing which contributes nothing to its safety and by making it difficult to unpack increases the risk of damage after it has arrived.

I started off packing watches in a small box wrapped in bubble wrap in a padded bag, over time I used more wrap and a bigger bag then replaced the bag with a cardboard box which although more expensive did, with the elimination of sticky tape, turn out to be quicker to pack and I suspect also discourages rough handling.

Here is the latest and hopefully final version of my packaging. The watch goes into a jewellery pouch and the pouch into a sealed plastic bag to protect against condensation particularly if transported in an unpressurised / unheated aircraft hold which frequently happens even on shipments within the UK, although international shipments present the bigger risk.

Then into a small but strong cardboard box with padding top and bottom. Annoyingly the boxes come with just one bit of padding so more has to be added.

Next into a medium sized box with a lot of bubble wrap.

Ready to go except for the address label and packing slip.